与斯坦福医疗保健公司的Charlene Platon一起进行护士主导的创新

“讲故事非常重要，尤其是在创新和破坏方面。”——Charlene柏拉图，Johnson和Johnson护士创新研究员，斯坦福健康护理门诊护理主任

为什么故事对创新过程有关？分享故事的创新者可以灌输哪些值？创新领导者如何激发创作者告诉和分享他们的成功和失败故事？

Charlene Platon is a board-certified family nurse practitioner, a licensed registered nurse, the director of ambulatory nursing at斯坦福医疗保健，和强生护士创新研究员。Charlene’s goal is to bring nurse-led innovation to the forefront of healthcare. In mid-May of 2020, she and Chris Caulfield ofForbes Tech Council是在其中一个胜利的队伍Sonsiel.那微软那Johnson & Johnson, and德武普国际Covid-19 Virtual Hackathon。她揭示了如何从评委开始买入的绩效。Healthcare #sheroes喜欢Charlene突出了协作医疗创新的重要故事。从流程改进到新技术发展，护士处于独特的地位，以便看到医疗保健改善的机会。我们的关键外卖？所有护士都是创新者，但不是每个人都传统上有能力看到它。我们希望您采取此护士带领的创新故事并将其应用于您的行业或社区。每个人都可以使用更广泛的镜头，了解谁可以成为创新领导者。创新不适用于硅谷;它是由主题专家领导，共同努力改善他们的领域。 You can follow her on Twitter and LinkedIn.

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凯蒂[00:00:04]欢迎来到不为人知的创新故事，在这里，我们放大了不为人知的洞察力、影响力和创新故事。我是你的主持人，凯蒂·特劳斯·泰勒，有着不为人知的内容。我们今天的客人是夏琳·普拉顿。她是斯坦福健康护理学院的门诊护理主任。她是12位Johnson and Johns乐动体育足球on护士创新奖得主之一。她是一名获得委员会认证的家庭护士从业者，一名注册护士，也是2020年5月举行的护士黑客健康COVID-19虚拟黑客竞赛的获奖团队成员。弹性和自我护理部门的获奖者。我们非常感谢你的播客，夏琳。谢谢你能来。

Charlene [00:00:49] Thank you so much for having me, Katie. I’m glad to be here.

Katie [00:00:51] We noticed as we were interviewing women like yourself that we were starting to recognize sort of healthcare #sheros, if you will. And we got inspired by this sort of subcategory of the podcast and started reaching out to women who were just outstanding in their fields. And I’m so grateful to hear more of your thoughts today about why innovation matters to the field of nursing. And to hear your journey as well.

Charlene [00:01:18]谢谢你，凯蒂。我很高兴你提到了Sheros。我喜欢那个。而且我认为这是一个重要的呼叫行动，真正关注妇女在医疗保健和护理中的妇女的创新。但只是一般来说，一个呼吁行动，提请注意护士带领的创新。护士带领的创新的想法是如此重要。仅仅因为，你知道，护士一直在床边创新，我在整个医疗保健生涯中注意到了作为护士的东西，即护士从未称之为他们的创新实际创新。我们从未被告知过去致电IT创新。我认为现在，随着护士带领的创新发生了如此多的动力，20/20年是护士和助产士的年份，而且在这个全球大流行的前线上的护士工作也是最重要的将这位护士带来的重要时间将创新进入最前沿。 And I’m so excited to be part of that mission and part of that advocacy.

凯蒂[00:02:20]是的。所以非常感谢你对护士主导的创新的介绍，以及为什么它很重要的一些背景。你能多分享一点吗？你知道吗，作为一名护士，你第一次听到护士领导的创新是什么时候？什么时候在你的领域出现的？

查琳[00:02:37]这是个好问题，凯蒂。老实说，我第一次听到护士主导创新这个词是在去年。

凯蒂[00:02:46]当然。

Charlene [00:02:46] Yeah, and it’s amazing because looking back, I know so many nurses who are innovators. I would say all nurses are innovators and in different ways, really. But with that term, the first time I heard it was actually watching Rebecca Love talk about nurse-led innovation during her TED talk. And she was really the first nurse that stood on the TED stage. And I’m so glad that the topic was about nurse-led innovation because it’s something that people have never heard before, especially nurses. If I have not heard of that term before, I don’t think that other members of the healthcare community or the public in general have heard that type of a term. And so hearing that for the first time last year was really important for me because I immediately connected with Rebecca on Linked-In. I immediately shared her post and had other people listen to her talk, because for the first time I realized that everything that I’ve done before in the field of healthcare has been not only improvement, but innovation. And I think that’s a very important term. Another way that I’ve heard of it was really through my Johnson and Johnson nurse innovation fellowship. And that was another program that I actually found out about because of Rebecca Love. And she is one of the facilitators of that program. And so highlighting Johnson and Johnson with this nurse innovation fellowship was huge. And it really brought forward that nurses are big innovators as well.

凯蒂[00:04:18]你知道，医疗保健行业内部创新的想法是非常多方面的。你在卫生系统内部有些内部 - 历史上，很多重点，就像你说，改进，过程改进，精益创新，精益管理系统，这么多种不同的方法，试图更好地制造健康系统。然后，您也有这种健康技术，数字健康界，这可以在某种程度上是我可能会推断一点点，但被视为干扰者。正确的。来自医疗保健外部的人们正试图对其进行更改。您将在哪里说护士带领的创新在该频谱内的跌倒？

Charlene[00:05:02]是的,这是个很好的问题,Katie. And you’re definitely correct in that health care innovation is absolutely multifaceted. There’s so many different ways that you could improve and innovate in healthcare. There is definitely the quality improvement lean Six Sigma methodology aspect, but there’s definitely the healthcare technology aspect, biomedical devices, clinical innovations in that arena. And to be honest, nurses spend all those different types of innovation. And with my experience as a bedside nurse, my first experience with innovation was really in the improvement side and it was improving processes, improving areas of the healthcare workflow that were not as efficient as they could be. So it was more in line with Lean Six Sigma removing waste from processes, making things more efficient. But then in my Nurse Innovation Fellowship, I have such a diverse group of members in the cohort with me and they range anywhere from frontline innovators at the bedside to business owners, entrepreneurs and also medical device creators. And so I really, truly think nurse-led innovation spans the whole spectrum. And, you know, I really think that’s not something a lot of people know about, because we don’t often hear that nurses are entrepreneurs as well or inventors as well. And that was something that I was so happy and excited to hear about with more and more of my involvement in this space and with more and more of the momentum of nurse led innovation being brought forward. So it’s been great to see.

凯蒂[00:06:42]我完全同意。我爱的东西，我认为很多听众对这个播客享受遵循，创新艺术被扰乱的方式，这是否是实际的创新或正在进行创新的人。因此，您知道，例如，只改变某些类型的人的脚本，是否是种族身份或性别认同或地理标识 - 你知道创新者只来自山谷的想法。因此，在产品和市场和行业和方法和方法方面都有很多损失。但是，当涉及到谁正在进行创新时，也有很多损失和创新，即在雷达上甚至没有人在雷达上爆炸的白色空间区域。

夏琳[00:07:38]绝对。你说得对。很多人都认为创新只来自一个地方，所有伟大的企业和发明都来自硅谷，硅谷就是我现在真正所在的地方。所以这很有趣，但我绝对明白。人们也不知道发明来自于所有的东西。而且，创新无处不在。我可以说出我所参与的每个医疗机构的创新。实际上，这种破坏的想法贯穿整个医疗保健行业。而且，不仅仅是技术或者仅仅是硅谷的某个人创建移动应用程序之类的想法。但是，这种破坏实际上是以各种不同的形状和大小出现的，而且很多都是幕后的。所以它可能不像发明或者是产品那样华丽。但它也可能是一个程序。这可能是一个过程改进。所以我认为这是一个重要的区别。

凯蒂[00:08:48]是的。好吧，不用再多说了，我真的想谈谈这个黑客攻击。我为你和你的团队感到很兴奋。告诉我们所有的事情。我是说，这是我们如何共同创新对付这一流行病的话题？这是每个人的心意。我们都非常关心，我们渴望突破。你能跟我们分享一下黑客的样子吗？就在这个周末，对吧？

夏琳[00:09:18]是的，就在过去的周末，5月15日到5月17日。这是一个非常快的速度，相当激烈的环境，尽管它是虚拟的。所以我真的很感动，因为这是约翰逊和约翰逊，微软，桑西尔，一个护士创新协会的合作关系。还有，开发会议。所以，在过去的周末，四个庞大的、不同的群体都聚集在一起，真正把数百人带入了一个创新空间。所以我相信，实际上有900多人报名参加了某种方式。不管是不是，都很疯狂。我真是太惊讶了。我认为，这900人都是由参与者、主持人、组织者、导师、法官和其他正在合作和支持活动的人组成的。最后，我想——我不确定球队里有多少人。我想至少还有几百个。所以这是一个巨大的事件。而且，要让所有这些都在微软的帮助下在网上进行，这真的非常令人印象深刻。

凯蒂[00:10:35]你能画出它的样子吗？你到底是什么样的虚拟现实？是变焦电话吗？比如他们是怎么组织的？

Charlene [00:10:45] Yeah. So primarily the whole interaction and the whole organization of the event was done on Microsoft teams. And I actually have never used Microsoft teams before. And it’s actually a great way to organize events because it brings all the collaboration into one space. So it does integrate video conferencing, phone conferencing, and it also integrates different chat channels and teams to organize the different work that people are doing. So each team had a channel and there were about 30 teams total that participated. And each team had about, you know, anywhere from two people to ten people plus. And so each team had their own channel on Microsoft teams. And that was the primary method for the team members within that group to communicate. And so it was all done through this program. And I’m not sure if you’re familiar with Microsoft teams?

凯蒂[00:11:43]一点点。是的。

Katie [00:11:44] Yeah. It was definitely new, but it was easy to use. And so in that program, too, they have a place where you could organize your to do list your tasks and, you know, assign different tasks to different people. And it’s kind of just like message boards. And, you know, you could talk back and forth to your teammates, but you also have a chat feature if you just want to message specific people or directly message other people. So it kind of meshed together all the different things that we know about virtual conferencing into one place. So it was really nice.

凯蒂[00:12:17]所以告诉我们，你知道，选择你的团队并接受特定的类别。

Charlene [00:12:24]是的。所以我第一次知道哈奇桑达，因为我参与了约翰逊和约翰逊护士创新奖学金，实际上是他们所拥有的不同轨道。我立即被弹性和自我护理轨道吸引，因为我作为过去的前线的护士的经验，同样因为我现在参与了护理领导，我知道需要多少弹性和自我保健并始终是前线的专业人士所需的。因此，这轨迹真的很近而珍惜我的心，因为我知道它有多困难。现在有很多挑战，正面正在为前线的护士发生并且有这么大的需要。你知道，我们都听到了医生和护士倦怠，我们都听说过医疗保健专业倦怠。随着这种全球大流行发生的，它真的只是超越了我以前见过的需求。所以我真的想把一些其他其他专业人士献给大流行，希望通过这些真正挑战的时代帮助支持他们。我发现了我想加入的团队，因为我与LinkedIn上有很多不同的护士创新者有关。 And LinkedIn is an amazing resource. And that’s really how I found out about so many different nurses and their different ways that they innovate. And one of those nurse innovators is Chris Caulfield. He’s the co-founder and chief nursing officer of Intellicare, which is a software that’s used to help support staffing for nurses and post-acute care facilities. And so I found out that Chris was participating in the hackathon. And I immediately connected with him and asked if I could participate with him and join his team because I knew he wanted to be part of the resiliency and self-care track. And so fortunately, I was able to join him. And so that’s how we got our team started. And then, as we posted on Microsoft teams that we needed some members, it was very organic. And we had a lot of nurses who were really just naturally drawn to that track to join us. And they were all so passionate. And a lot of—we had about, including me and Chris, there were eight nurses total who joined our team and then two technical experts who helped with UX design, with digital marketing. So it was a great mix of different types of expertise. And so having all of these nurses who are also experts in mental health, who are also experts in compassion fatigue and all of these different types of mental health aspects of care. It was a great collaboration.

凯蒂[00:15:03]这绝对令人难以置信。你知道，你知道，暂停一秒钟以真正思考，你知道，应对护士的干预措施及其在本职业中的重要性。你能分享一些关于大流行如何让所有这些事情更具挑战性吗？你好吗？你的社区是如何？你现在的观点是什么？

Charlene [00:15:33]是啊，全球大流行病真的是一个前所未有的挑战。我的意思是，我们都知道美国医疗保健系统在基础设施中具有很大的挑战，并以我们提供护理和达到弱势群体的方式。但是，随着大流行，它真的强调了我们的医疗保健系统如何支持以及需要开发的基础设施以及进一步支持最需要保健的人。因此，随着大流行，它只是一个巨大的不同问题。很多人都无法访问他们需要的护理。知道如何导航是如此众多不同的挑战，因为我们在首次出现时不了解有关病毒的许多信息。我们不确定传输它的方式或采取适当的预防措施。在医疗保健环境中导航非常具有挑战性。当大流行第一次击中时，首先在美国开始成为更多已知问题，我在斯坦福医疗保健中处于不同的位置。我正在担任高级实践经理。 And in that role, I was directly overseeing nurse practitioners and physician assistants who were working on the frontline, working with patients who were potentially, you know, under investigation for Covid. And so it was really challenging to be able to appropriately inform the staff and help them with what they needed, the resources they needed, even making sure that they have all of the personal protective equipment that they needed. You know, just so many different types of challenges all into one.

凯蒂[00:17:20]是的，绝对。所以似乎你对这个特定类别有一个精彩的拉动策略。那么故事如何在球队开始在围绕弹性和自我护理问题的情况下发挥作用的作用以及你想出的解决方案？

Charlene [00:17:38]绝对。我们的每位团队成员都有一个不同的故事。即使是团队中的非护士，每个人都有一个不同的故事，当涉及Covid-19的挑战。这是我们所有人都可以连接的东西。我认为这就是为什么讲故事是非常重要的，特别是在创新和破坏时。和我困住的一个特殊经验是，我们的团队成员中的一个特别激情，关于加入这个哈克松，因为她不久，她的亲爱的同事都被自杀，不幸的是。这就是发生的事情。你会看到，你知道，越来越多。这是我一直在阅读和听到越来越多，通过所有不同类型的医疗保健专业人士阅读。当她通知我们的团队和发生了什么时，我们都立即觉得我们都立即与她联系并感受到这种同理心。 And really, we wanted to help and support nurses like her and also other health care professionals who are facing that challenge, because it’s not just a singular event. And so if we didn’t have that context or if we didn’t have the context of the experiences that everyone is facing, it would truly be a different story. It would be, you know, it would be a different solution that we would come up with. It would be a different problem that we are trying to solve. But it’s very different when you hear a nurse say, I’m stressed or I’m burnt out versus I’m stressed and burnt out because one of my good friends passed away yesterday. So.

凯蒂[00:19:15]对。

Charlene [00:19:15] Yeah. So it was very compelling. And we all just felt like this was a huge problem that we wanted to fix. And so we worked together very well despite not knowing each other and, you know, meeting each other for the first time, all online and all through virtual means.

Katie [00:19:31] And let me add to this, too, that all of you, I’m sure, are are working incredibly hard. Some of you on the frontlines during a pandemic, and you’re spending your weekend in an innovation hackathon because you feel that passionately about the problem. I think there’s so much to be said in the innovation community around open innovation in particular, or inspiring people to follow their passions and to connect on an empathetic level to a particular problem, because the solution will come so much more rapidly when you have that level of connection and empathy with the problem.

Charlene [00:20:10]究竟。它真的讲的是全国各地数百人和数百人，其遍布全世界。我们其他人在国际上加入并参加了哈奇桑那州，这只是说出这一问题对这么多人的事项以及医疗保健专业人员或非医疗保健专业人士真正想要贡献和帮助的人。And for me personally, since I’m currently not working as a nurse on the front lines and I haven’t directly interacted with patients who have COVID-19 or have directly cared for those types of patients, I really wanted to do something or anything really that I know could help nurses or professionals or anyone who’s really facing stresses and mental health challenges because of the pandemic.

Katie [00:21:00] Yes, absolutely. So, you know, you shared where story emerged in the formation—sort of the formation of your team—and how that aligned everyone together around the problem and its deaths. Could you share now kind of zoom forward to creation. You’ve now created a prototype. What was the pitching process like? What story did you—did you end up sharing that same story when you presented your concept to the larger teams again?

Charlene [00:21:28]是的。所以它很有意思，因为如果你有两个机会投球。所以星期六，这是两天的哈帕顿，我们有三分钟才能与法官一起练习。然后他们让我们大约七分钟给我们提供反馈。实际上，我们没有。我们最初没有在我们的音高中包含这个故事，因为我们有这么多的信息，我们希望在三分钟内包含。这是一个非常快的时间。So first, you know, we’re just focused on getting all of the information in. But then after that pre pitch, one of the pieces of feedback that we received from the judges was, you know, we didn’t hear the story. We want to really hear the story that has to connect with the solution. And we want to know who is this affecting? Which nurses are you trying to reach with this solution? And so, you know, immediately the light bulbs went on. And then just going back to that story that one of our members shared with us before, we did include that in the final pitch. And that took place yesterday on Sunday. And so we definitely did include that. We originally wanted to include a video of the nurse speaking about her experience. But then unfortunately, in the final pitch, we weren’t able to add the actual video. It was very compelling, but we were able to mention it in our pitch deck. And I do think it connected with people.

夏琳[00:22:58]哇。是的，当然。所以这太疯狂了。您的第一个版本的基音非常以数据为中心，或者对应用程序的特性有非常明确的解释？

查琳[00:23:08]是的。我知道，当你是一个正在搭建球场平台的人或是一个想突出你的想法的不同方面的人时，这是一个很容易陷入的陷阱。谈论这些特性、数据和业务模型非常容易。有时候你没有意识到故事的缺失。

凯蒂[00:23:31]我喜欢这个课程。这是一个如此重要的外卖，因为我认为，特别是作为科学思想的人，我们倾向于这么快地进入这个陷阱。特别是当你真的通过某些东西思考而且你通过纠正的特征和某种东西的可用性和目的的想法。它很容易在列表中取消划痕故事，专注于那些量化的东西。但是是啊，有趣的是实际上仍然需要来自那个音高的某处的故事。

Charlene [00:24:04]吧。And you’re absolutely right with the insight you brought in, because as healthcare professionals who are really focused on evidence-based research, on data and numbers and science, it is really hard sometimes to incorporate the qualitative data and that isn’t something that’s often—you don’t really see that prioritized a lot sometimes when it comes to different ideas. And I mean, that’s probably there, but it’s not highlighted as much. And so it was a really great takeaway from the hackathon and just a way to bring us all back down and ground ourselves into thinking, you know, the real problem is really that a lot of these healthcare professionals are facing these very tough situations and they’re suffering a lot of different losses, whether it’s a friend, a colleague, a loved one, and even a lot of moral distress with making really difficult decisions on how to provide care for the patients. So absolutely, it was a great lesson learned.

凯蒂[00:25:06]在那里，Charlene，我会爱你的视角，为什么护士如此骄傲创新。

Charlene [00:25:14]是的。这是一个很大的问题。而且，您知道，在我们在护理学校的培训中，我们被教导质乐动体育266疑现状。我们被教导质疑医疗保健交付。And I do think that as a nurse, since you’re with the patient for, you know, 24/7 at the bedside in the hospital or since you interact with patients so much and you’re the consistent person that’s really available for the patient, at least in the acute care setting. You’re able to see a lot of different things that others can’t. And I do think that’s a really special component of nursing that a lot of different other healthcare professionals may not have. They don’t always have that insight because they can’t see all the workflows not working in an optimized way. But nurses can see that. [38.7s] And I think these different experiences and also just the genuine, authentic personality of nurses. We really want to provide the best care for people. And so I don’t think you can really stay in nursing or really become a nurse without that need or desire to want to help people. And I think because of that and because of the training we receive and because of the problems that we see consistently around us as we’re navigating the health system, we want the best in others and we want the best experience for others. And so we naturally will look for those solutions and naturally find ways to do things better. So that’s what I see in nursing.

凯蒂[00:26:48]当然。我完全同意。你能不能带我们回到你参与的强生护士创新研究员计划，并分享一下这是如何改变你对创新的看法和你在其中的角色的？

Charlene [00:27:04]是的。约翰逊和约翰逊护士创新奖学金一直如此惊人的经历。它真的改变了我的生活。我会说，并真正改变了我对护理的看法，这让我更加兴奋，更热情地对继续为医疗保健领域和护理领域做出贡献。还有一个真正让我对这个计划的事情是我与人民，我的队列的社区感觉，也只是知道创新世界实际上很多，比我想象的要大得多，因为你知道，when you’re working in the healthcare system, you don’t exactly know who is innovating because the nurses that you’re with, they may be working on, you know, working with patients independently. And you may not know exactly what they have done during their shift that had helped the patient have a better experience because you have your own patient load that you’re focusing on. And so it was tough when I was at the bedside as a registered nurse in the hospital, because I had no idea who was interested in that—the idea of innovation—even though I knew that a lot of my colleagues were innovating. But with the fellowship we immediately have that community of nurses who are very passionate have already done a lot of different things towards innovation. And it’s such a diverse group of people. And I really think that we’re all so passionate about this idea that we all really clicked. And, you know, I really feel like I found my tribe in those different nurses that I’m with. There’s twelve of us total and we’re all so close, despite only really seeing each other in person maybe two times. And the rest of the times we’ve been having virtual meetings. But our program is two years in total and it just feels so great to know that you’re not the only one who wants to make a difference. I mean, absolutely not. There’s so many people who want to. But to have that sense of community and to have that shared vision and mission really makes a difference.

Katie [00:29:10] Absolutely. So it’s really this wonderful cohort model. And then you were part of the first one. So will there be more, I assume? Has a new cohort started yet?

夏琳[00:29:20]是的，肯定还有其他的队伍加入我们后面。实际上，在下一个队列中，第一个队列将作为下一个队列的指导者。

凯蒂[00:29:32]太好了。

Charlene [00:29:33]，但是当下一个Cohort开始时，尚未打开。鉴于现在与大流行的挑战，该计划已经有一些变化。所以要这样做，但我真的期待着我们在我们之后加入的其他队列。而且我已经知道这么多人都很兴趣，因为毕竟这个新闻和信息传播了这个程序，所以很多护士都邮件给了我或与我谈论想要加入程序或想要申请。它真的很激动，因为。它真的重振了您对护理和医疗保健的热情，以及我们如何真正直接使它更好。

凯蒂[00:30:15]是的，绝对。Charlene，我非常感谢这次谈话，听听你通过创新镜头看世界的方式，了解护士带领的创新，看看为什么重要。并听到你的经历，特别是在哈奇桑那州内的故事。我再次令人难以置信地感谢在我们的谈话中吸取的经验教训。And I’m hopeful that one you feel celebrated as a healthcare #shero, and two that other people listening, see and really start to think with broader lenses about who should be in charge of innovation and who should be viewed as innovators, because I believe that any person can view themselves that way and impact the world, as you said.

查琳[00:31:02]当然。我真的很喜欢你的措辞，我们可以，你知道，进一步思考护士主导的创新。对护士来说，以这种方式看待自己是非常重要的，因为它真的赋予你权力，让你知道，你可以改变你病人的生活，尽管这是护士们这么多年来一直在做的事情。因此，只要能够强调，你知道，护士是创新者，他们有伟大的想法，能够让护士参与关键的医疗决策，我认为这是非常重要的。而且，你知道，现在随着大流行，一切都解决了，我的使命之一，作为一个门诊护理主任和强生护士创新研究员，是继续把护士的想法和护理创新的前沿，并试图看看我们如何利用这一点。我希望，在2020年之后，甚至在疫情平息之后，我们仍然高度重视护士和他们的想法。这就是我对未来的希望。

凯蒂[00:32:08]你认为你会放大原型吗？你觉得你会用它做更多的事情吗？

Charlene [00:32:13]哦，是的。我们的团队 - 我们的应用程序被称为Wellnurse，这是一个对健康的游戏。既然我们是其中一个胜利队之一，我们有机会与微软和约翰逊和约翰逊和约翰逊和在Sonsiel开展会议，我们将在未来几个月内接受媒利兵，我甚至觉得达到了年。所以我们将可以访问Microsoft工程师。而且我真的很想看到这个应用程序进入市场，并希望尽快进入护士手中。但我会告诉你，因为我很兴奋，我迫不及待想要开始。

凯蒂[00:32:53]是的,当然。这是一个专业ssion that is so critical, especially in these times. I hope that the nurse community sees the amount of support that everyone is outpouring. And I hope that they feel celebrated at this time. And I hope that others to really take this lesson of nurse-led innovation and apply it to your industry or to your community. And think about pilot-led innovation and teacher-led innovation and grandparent-led innovation. There are so many different ways that we can think about identity and the way that we name ourselves as innovators or not and what that can do. So again, Charlene, thank you so much. Where can people find you on social media?

Charlene [00:33:38]是的，我都过于社交媒体。我有一个twitter @charleneplaton。我有一个LinkedIn，也是Charlene Platon。那些是我与人民和特别是LinkedIn沟通的主要方式。这是一个伟大的资源和社区。所以，如果有人想连接和谈论创新或如何继续推动这些不同的创新身份，请接到我。我很乐意连接。

Katie [00:34:04] Thank you so much, Charlene, and stay safe and keep innovating.

Charlene [00:34:07]非常感谢你。凯蒂，我真的很感激。

凯蒂[00:34:12]谢谢你听了本周的节目。一定要在社交媒体上跟我们一起，并在对话中增加你的声音。你可以找到我们@undold内容。乐动体育足球

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*Interviews are not endorsements of individuals or businesses.